75% weps?

[Zarana]

In case you didn't notice, this is all speculation, and I don't really think it would happen. I'm just reflecting on what COULD happen if Sonic Team does nothing to alter the difficulty curve.

As for S-Rank weapons being obsolete, though, you've got to realize that a 100% DB's Saber is better than each and every one of the current S-Ranks. And since DB's Saber is a bottom-of-the-barrel weapon, imagine if you got something else with 100%. S-Ranks would be even more useless. Plain and simple, unless they can have percentages, this 100% concept ruins any usefulness an S-Rank weapon ever had. No matter what, a mediocre weapon with 100% is going to be better than a great weapon with 0%.

That's probably the only bit of speculation I'm actually taking seriously at this point. Sonic Team *must* have balanced the EII Ultimate levels. If they didn't, it would be completely ridiculous. And, blind to the obvious as they may be, I highly doubt they missed this one. My past posts were just stating the reasons why Sonic Team must have balanced EII Ultimate. If they didn't, the results would be a catastrophe.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zarana on 2002-06-20 18:39 ]</font>

[Cloak]

Ummm.... I don't know where you get this DB'S SABER 100% = better than an S RANK. Let's use S RANK SABER as an example. Even with 100% to, let's say, A.Beast, DB's SABER definitely isn't better than S RANK SABER, when used in Cave. (I'm not even sure if a 180% DB's is better.) Plus you might be forgetting the huge difference in ATA, making DB SABER the one that barely hits, and barely damages. (Barely damages compared to the more powerful SABER.)

And to the person who posted above Zaran, yes your post had a point. A VERY good one, at that. People forget that forces are mainly for support, not to be some all-powerful technical PSO character of destruction. Most people don't even UNDERSTAND how freakin' powerful a force would be if ST listened to the ignorant ones requesting forces MST to be increased. While it's true it's unfair forces do 90ish damage in ult. ruins, this doesn't mean they should get a HUGE increase. If they did, it'd be just like a max MST force w/LV30 techs in vhard, a HUMAN NEEDLE.

I personally think force general MST damage should be raised, slightly. And single hit techs should be raised significantly. So a foie should be able to do 200-300 damage in ruins. Having single hit techniques be more powerful would even it out sorta, since they won't be destroying EVERYTHING in sight with RA techs. And as far as support techs go, they should be based on MST. S/D/J/Z should be weaker or stronger depending on MST. It makes no sense a FOnewearl's shifta is just as effective as a FOmarl's. Maybe making MST act like this would finally allow FOnewearl to be the ultimate support character she was intended to be. But at this point I really don't care or need to think about PSO. Just giving input..

~EDIT~
Oh, and if you're saying DB's SABER is better than ALL S RANK's just because of the fact of it's TP special, I'd like to see you try that lovely special in ultimate mode. See how effective it connects there. u_n;;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cloak on 2002-06-20 21:00 ]</font>

[Cheech]

Whoa whoa... everyone needs to calm down about the over 60% on weapons. It's ONLY for the trial.

Ah King said on his message board that it's only for trial. I hope he's right too.

[HC82]

On 2002-06-20 20:52, Cloak wrote:
And to the person who posted above Zaran, yes your post had a point. A VERY good one, at that. People forget that forces are mainly for support, not to be some all-powerful technical PSO character of destruction. Most people don't even UNDERSTAND how freakin' powerful a force would be if ST listened to the ignorant ones requesting forces MST to be increased. While it's true it's unfair forces do 90ish damage in ult. ruins, this doesn't mean they should get a HUGE increase. If they did, it'd be just like a max MST force w/LV30 techs in vhard, a HUMAN NEEDLE.

I personally think force general MST damage should be raised, slightly. And single hit techs should be raised significantly. So a foie should be able to do 200-300 damage in ruins. Having single hit techniques be more powerful would even it out sorta, since they won't be destroying EVERYTHING in sight with RA techs. And as far as support techs go, they should be based on MST. S/D/J/Z should be weaker or stronger depending on MST. It makes no sense a FOnewearl's shifta is just as effective as a FOmarl's. Maybe making MST act like this would finally allow FOnewearl to be the ultimate support character she was intended to be. But at this point I really don't care or need to think about PSO. Just giving input..

I gotta agree. I also gotta agree with alot of the above posts as well.

First off alot of folk are totally correct on tech damage being a pile of garbage in the ruins(90 damage for 40tp...why?). Although alot of folk have a crack pipe in there mouth if they think FO tech should be dealing insane damage.

FO techs should deal around 300 to 350 damage with max FOnewearl mst and level 30 techs(even 200 damage would be exceptable). Compared to to the 1600 damage my HUmar does with a 60% pick and s/z, i think it's fair if I deal 1/5 the damage with my techs as apposed to 1/16th it does now.

I also think it's odd for mst to only effective shifta/debands casting distance. If not effect it's strength(which it should IMO do very slightly), it should effect it's duration. So higher MST equals a much longer lasting shifta and deband. Range isn't a big deal unless it's resta, or your fighting flaz last form.

FOs are all about support right?

Personally I think FO techs should focus more on support based effects then actual chunks of spread damage. A great example is Rabarta(hands down the most used FO damage tech in ulti)....although it's freeze effect isn't that high since a Bot can drop a trap.

Suppose Zonde would randomly effect the player with a "slow" status for a few seconds, or foie would lower the enemies evasion and accuracy for a short while. Grants would still be a big hitter but would confuse the enemy . Megid would be a sort of "demi" style spell which reduced the enemies hp by a certain percentage. The percentage would be sort of random...the higher the hp percentage decrease, the less chance it would occur if your mst and tech level is low(the percentage amount chouldn't exceed 35%). It also has a small chance to instant kill a enemy.

If that were the case then your damage wouldn't be such a big deal, because your spells have unique effects. MST would effect the damage minorly(like it does now) but it would also effect the chance of these special effect occuring.

From what I noticed MST doesn't effect Rabartas chance to freeze....which is lame.


...More incoming balance rants

Enemies don't need more evp and dfp then what they already have in ulti to make them tougher. With higher dfp and evp it means that low ata weapons would be worthless and that hunter classes with lower atp(ie hunewearl) would really be hurting from increase dfp. Since when you miss your whole attack just whiffs, so a sword based weapon would simply be too risky to use(which is why a red sword was almost worthless to use past the caves).

I think ata should work differently. If your ata was too low and you "miss" it should then calculate if you really do "miss" and deal no damage or your attacks damage amount is just halved. So you'll still hit but the damage will be halved...or it will just outright miss. The chances of it missing outright or the damage being halved would be futher dependent on the attackers ata and person taking the hits evp.

The whole ata isnt a big deal for me, but imo some weapons just need some ata retuning.

If you want enemies to be tougher then they already are in ulti just give them more HP. Give them more dfp and evp and you'll be missing too much, and lower atp classes will deal peanuts. Enemies take longer to kill with more hp, making ranger sniping more valuable, and makes spread damage from techs more valuable. This way a hunter who is the main damage dealer can take out the enemiy in one combo because of the total aid of there teammates...not because there suped up with support spells.

Weapon percents IMO really don't need to exceed 60% except for a few types. I think only certain weapons should be able to reach 60%. Like a claw type weapon should be able to reach 60% while a partisan/sword type weapon should only reach a max of 40%. Why? Well partisan and sword type weapons are always overkill with a FOs support spells. I kill things with 45% pick in one combo...another 15% is just overkill. Besides WHO WOULD actually USE a CLAW over a sword or pick aside for RPing purposes or just to mess around.

Single hit weapons should be able to have a higher maximum percent, while multi hit weapons should naturally have a lower set attainable max percents. A claw would be 65% a dagger would be 55%, handguns 50%, rifles 55%...etc.

[VariantXL]

100% DB Saber..pfft....... so what. Theres a bunch of better weapons on top of it that could have 100% and be better.. if 100% is possible i doubt that it would be 100% in EVERY area against EVERY type of beast u came across. And arent S-Rank weapons plain more powerful than almost any thing you could find in any box or dropped from a monster. S-rank weaps were intended to be the absolute best u can get your hands on and no percentage on most weapons will ever change that. What if you get an 100% S-Rank?? is someone going to find a way to complain about that too? Its just something that we arent sure about yet? And this really applies more so to the way ep 1 was set up. But not E2 the areas have different classifications t of monsters in them so u could hit one with a 100% weap and do like 750 and the next one u could hit it and do 0 and it turn around and smack you flat on the ground. So its a matter of luck in the end or paying the tekker excruciating amounts of money until he gives you the percent you want.

[nosaJ]

On 2002-06-20 18:25, Cloak wrote:
You people are looking way too far into the future. Why? S RANKS? Obsolete? How do you know? There is currently no information on S RANK weapons. Ultimate mode EPII last stage being 4 times as hard as ult ruins, and rangers being the only one to damage? How do you know? There was NO mention of a special last EPII stage at all, let alone information of it being incredibly hard. Stop trying to predict things, sure ST isn't the smartest, but c'mon, would they REALLY make it so only rangers can hit stuff in ult EPII? Or forces doing 15 damage? Why not wait and see how things are going to be? For all anyone knows, they could've revamped EVERYTHING, enemy resistances, DFP, EVP, spell damage, MST, ATA, ATP, ETC., ETC., ETC!Assumptions/opinions don't really aid to true information. So don't jump the gun. o_O;

What's wrong with guessing? It's not just a guess, it's about opinions too.

[Defend]

Hehe my 50% nat Chain Sawd farted on the S Rank Saber.

[VulpesMundi]

Let's put this into perspective using current stats...

HUnewearl
ATP 1150
ATA 164
Shifta 15 (+25% total ATP)

DB's Saber
ATP 250 + 18 (9 grind) = 268
ATA 40
Special: Spirit (roughly 25% ATP bonus)
Area type: 100%
Hit bonus: 100

S-Rank Saber
ATP 804 + 198 (99 grind) = 1002
ATA 200

---

HUnewearl + DB's Saber + Shifta 15
ATP 1150 + 268 = 1418 + 25% = 1773 + 100% = 3546
ATA 164 + 40 + 100 = 304
Special: 3546 + 25% = 4433

HUnewear + S-Rank Saber + Shifta 15
ATP 1150 + 1002 = 2152 + 25% = 2690
ATA 164 + 200 = 364

As you can see the DB's Saber won't have as much ATA, but its ATP total (especially with the special attack) is insane. And currently the ATA standings in ultimate mode are more or less rated as such...

less than 200 = very bad (hella missing)
200 - 250 = bad (missing alot)
250 - 300 = ok (some misses)
300 - 350 = good (few misses)
350 - 400 = great (rarely miss)
400 or greater = excellent (godly hit rate)

The DB's Saber with a 100 hit bonus would be in the good category, whereas the S-Rank Saber is in great. But with such an extreme total calculated attack power the DB's Saber would certainly become a weapon of choice for people looking for something easy to find and effective to use. Charge weapons, Spirit weapons, and Berzerk weapons would become extremely popular and just as effective (if not more effective) than the majority of the available weaponry. As I see it, the Vjaya (partisan type, special: charge) will become one of the most popular HUnter weapons if the system isn't given more balance before the final release.

It's easy to see that weapon modders are going to have a field day when codes start flying. If E1&2 stats stay at a max of 100% and weapons can still have three stat types at a time, that means the modders could layer 300% on a single stat. And we thought 180% was ludicrous. lol

But back to the old argument. IF Sega/ST decide to keep the 100% stat maximum, I think it would be wise of them to make an item that can actually boost a weapon's stats. Kinda in the same vein as grinders and the item that adds slots to armor. This way any weapon, including S-Ranks, could be given legit stats (up to 100% and only three stat types per weapon). I could see them used kind of like grinders...

Monophoton(type) + 5% to a stat type
Diphoton(type) + 10% to a stat type
Triphoton(type) + 15% to a stat type

This of course is just a thought. I have no idea if they'll actually do anything like this. Wishful thinking, I suppose.

[Dain_Bramaged]

I recall hearing something about a way to add percentages to a weapon in an earlier post, you may very well be able to in E1&2.

As for the 100% crap items > S Ranks, my opinion is as follows: They've upped percentages, and rebalanced stats.. what makes you think that weapons in general, *including* S-ranks, won't be modified as well? They may have percentages on them, or they could even just be plain upgraded.

Another point I'd like to bring up is rarity. The trial version has greatly increased odds of finding rare items (from what I've heard on these boards...) For all we know, finding a +100% weapon could be rarer than anything you've ever seen in V2 when the full games are released. Maybe *so* rare that completing challenge mode to get an S-rank is *easier* than finding *anything* with 100% attributes, let alone something worthwhile, that your class can equip.

I can't, however, see ST changing the way the percentages affect the weapons, just doesn't seem very likely, they'll probably just balance character/NPC stats to deal with the higher percentage weapons.

Just my two cents worth, keep the change.

[Cloak]

Good point Vulp. Wait, no, not good point. Your calculations for shifta/weapon percentages is wrong because 25%/100% are not how they affect your overall damage. In fact I think no one has even been able to accurately figure out how shifta/deband work. Nor weapon %'s. Probably some JP PSO in-depth gamer, but no one has mass released the info. Either way ATA still wouldn't be good enough. ESPECIALLY for the special attack, since V2 special attacks are innacurate on ult. monsters, let alone V1 wep specials.